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Three-Handed in Bananarama - Tough Decision - Part III

Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
March 14, 2010 9:05:10 AM EDT

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Continued from Part II

Full Tilt Poker The Bananarama Open No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t25/t50 Blinds - 3 players -
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BB: t3685 M = 49.13
BTN: t950 M = 12.67
Hero (SB): t4365 M = 58.20

Pre Flop: (t75) Hero is SB with A J
1 fold, Hero raises to t150, BB raises to t450, Hero raises to t1200, BB raises to t3685 all in, Hero ????

Now what do you do?
Rene Castillo
March 14, 2010 9:17:32 AM EDT

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Hmmm, we might be in some deep doodoo here. However this smells like a midpair playing back at a bully shorthanded. Lets GAMMMMMMMBOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
March 14, 2010 10:10:11 AM EDT

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I hit my timer and was actually going to call Villian because I figured:

1. I'm getting 2:1 on my call and if I lose I'm left with enough chips to compete against the remaining player for 2nd anyway, and if I win I'm chip boss and probably have the trophy and win locked

2. Given how active I had been recently, there was a wide range of hands Villian could make this play with. If I run into AQ/AK and get coolered it sucks, but there's a decent chance, given Villians history, that I'm up against a pair I can flip with or a weaker Ace that I dominate

Unfortunately just as I came to my conclusion my timer hit 0 and folded me, doh!

Fortunately I still came back to win this thing, but really wanted to see what he had there.
Rusty Shackleford
March 14, 2010 10:27:45 AM EDT

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Not a surprising result given villain is percieved as a maniac. That's a reason to flat the flop and try to outmaneuver villain OTF rather than give him the keys to the Bentley. I'm guessing this is Warbuff, right?

As played, I still fold. You'll see chances to get in better than 60/40 or worse.
Ken Furem
- 8 posts
March 14, 2010 10:33:40 AM EDT

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Woodsmith111 wrote...

kingrc69 wrote...
Hmmm, we might be in some deep doodoo here. However this smells like a midpair playing back at a bully shorthanded. Lets GAMMMMMMMBOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
king is right on with his guess 9-9,

One of the reasons I made this play was a new posting in a thread the other day, so I had to reread the thread. Just goes to show, read all forum posts

from thread "play JJ with AJ"

I had pocket Jacks in this hand. My opponent after sending me the HH also mentioned this:

I thought I might share with you something I've noticed about your play the last couple of years.. You may not realize it but you have a sort of Helmuth kind of tendency mid tournament to turn down small edges. In the case of the hand I bluffed you out a big one.

To be perfectly honest, I didn't consider my foe capable of a play on this level, completely underestimated this type of move and/or overestimated his hand strength here.

Normally I'd repop someone preflop in this instance:

So the original reraise was the best way to see what was going on, figured A-K, A-Q so I was willing to coin flip with mny 55%, because of probable overcards, did not want him to see the flop.
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
March 14, 2010 10:59:27 AM EDT

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Cool Woodsmith, I figured at worst I was coin-flipping there, and the pot was laying me the right price, so I planned to call after arriving at my decision, but failed to click the button in time, doh!

Oh well, it worked out in the end and I won my first Bananarama, w00t!
Mark L
- 1 posts
March 14, 2010 11:44:57 AM EDT

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Funny how this one turned out, I planned to play today but over slept & missed out... Nice to see some of the older posts being put to good use :)
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
March 14, 2010 12:21:55 PM EDT

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Warbuff wrote...
Funny how this one turned out, I planned to play today but over slept & missed out... Nice to see some of the older posts being put to good use :)

Lol, my foes always hold onto their shallow wins from the past.

You may win the battle, but the war belongs to me!
Mike Canu
- 12 posts
March 14, 2010 1:35:29 PM EDT

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I would fold here not going to call a shove with AJ when I am this deep.
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
March 14, 2010 2:13:27 PM EDT

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EatingAnOreo wrote...
I would fold here not going to call a shove with AJ when I am this deep.

We're getting 2:1 against a villian who is playing back at us light, has history with us in this regard and we're three-handed, improving our hand strength significantly.

Granted, we may be 60/40 or 50/50 or 45/55, but with 2:1 for the win of the event, I think the correct play was to call. Unfortunately the buzzer sounded before I could get my shot off
Dan L.
March 14, 2010 2:26:45 PM EDT

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EatingAnOreo wrote...
I would fold here not going to call a shove with AJ when I am this deep.

+1
Rusty Shackleford
March 14, 2010 3:00:34 PM EDT

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anthony wrote...

Granted, we may be 60/40 or 50/50 or 45/55, but with 2:1 for the win of the event, I think the correct play was to call. Unfortunately the buzzer sounded before I could get my shot off

The point that you essentially win the tourney if you win is a good one, and by the math alone there's no decision. But the odds are not necessarily a deciding factor. It's a tourney, and you don't get to reload when you get beat. The true question is if your odds of winning this hand now are better than your odds of beating him later if you fold now. Given the read you gave, it would seem that with blinds this low you may well find easy pickings somewhere along the line. But regardless, it's a judgement call, not a matter of math.

I have no problem with either decision; it's up to you as a player to decide which way best suits you in this particular setting. The more you think you can control the table, the less you want to get into this kind of situ, and vice versa.
Rene Castillo
March 14, 2010 3:49:09 PM EDT

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Hmm, While I'm not totally against a fold here, I still feel that if we lay down that AJ after this ultra-aggro has been continuing to come over the top here, I think thats just giving him a green light to attack me more. Now as I said before, I probably would have called and saw a flop, but if I'm 3betting him pre, I think I probably have to go with my read here.

Then again, AJ did the opposite of what I said to do and he won the tournament lol, so yeah this is an interesting situation. :p
Rusty Shackleford
March 14, 2010 5:33:54 PM EDT

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kingrc69 wrote...
Hmm, While I'm not totally against a fold here, I still feel that if we lay down that AJ after this ultra-aggro has been continuing to come over the top here, I think thats just giving him a green light to attack me more.

Precisely. He'll kamikaze again and again, until you snap him off as a big fave. the blinds are so low you've got scads of time to get him.
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
March 14, 2010 6:10:27 PM EDT

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SamAdamsDan wrote...

EatingAnOreo wrote...
I would fold here not going to call a shove with AJ when I am this deep.

+1

What if we change our hand to:

AQ
AK

Does this change your decision?
Daniel K
March 15, 2010 3:21:42 AM EDT

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I see both benefits of a call or fold here. As well, i would have called considering that the villain is likely to constantly do that move (last post call his reraise rather than repopping him and see where we're at from there).

Also, it was three handed at 25/50? sheesh, how many showed up to this one, 5 people?
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
March 15, 2010 4:47:27 AM EDT

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DJKw418 wrote...

Also, it was three handed at 25/50? sheesh, how many showed up to this one, 5 people?

6, lol. Probably the only way I was finally going to win one of these!
Dan L.
March 15, 2010 4:51:31 AM EDT

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anthony wrote...

SamAdamsDan wrote...

EatingAnOreo wrote...
I would fold here not going to call a shove with AJ when I am this deep.

+1

What if we change our hand to:

AQ
AK

Does this change your decision?

As played....
AK yes
AQ no
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
March 15, 2010 4:55:49 AM EDT

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then it would've been the exact same situation.

AJ vs 99
AQ vs 99
AK vs 99

Are all relatively the same situation and odds.
Dan L.
March 15, 2010 4:57:34 AM EDT

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results oriented...you didn't know he had 99
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
March 15, 2010 5:09:56 AM EDT

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SamAdamsDan wrote...
results oriented...you didn't know he had 99

curses, foiled again!

I still think given that we're 3-handed, what we know of villian, what villian knows of us, etc. that our AJ is more than likely coin-flipping or dominating him than we're dominated.

As such, if we are calling with AK to flip against a small pocket pair, then I think we also do the same with AQ/AJ in this situation.

With 2:1 odds I think it's a bad play to fold when we're likely coin-flipping at worst, because we're giving up equity there.
Mark L
- 1 posts
March 15, 2010 1:28:02 PM EDT

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anthony wrote...

Warbuff wrote...
Funny how this one turned out, I planned to play today but over slept & missed out... Nice to see some of the older posts being put to good use :)

Lol, my foes always hold onto their shallow wins from the past.

You may win the battle, but the war belongs to me!

Using my name in vein - 1
Rusty Shackleford
March 15, 2010 6:27:21 PM EDT

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Warbuff wrote...

anthony wrote...

Warbuff wrote...
Funny how this one turned out, I planned to play today but over slept & missed out... Nice to see some of the older posts being put to good use :)

Lol, my foes always hold onto their shallow wins from the past.

You may win the battle, but the war belongs to me!

Using my name in vein - 1

I win this thread.
Jeff Kocot
March 15, 2010 10:49:04 PM EDT

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sixandfour wrote...

Warbuff wrote...

anthony wrote...

Warbuff wrote...
Funny how this one turned out, I planned to play today but over slept & missed out... Nice to see some of the older posts being put to good use :)

Lol, my foes always hold onto their shallow wins from the past.

You may win the battle, but the war belongs to me!

Using my name in vein - 1

I win this thread.
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
March 16, 2010 2:00:40 AM EDT

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The newspaper clipping was pure gold and POTM imo!

That being said, not my fault you folks can't do math when it comes to the call there.

There's 4,885 chips in the pot after Villian shoves. We have to call 2,485 to win this pot, bust villian and pretty much lock up first place. That's more than 1.9 to 1 on our call.

Mathematically we only have to believe our hand will win 34% of the time for a call to be correct. Unless Villian holds AK/AQ/AA (and there are a LOT of other holdings villian could make this play with) then I still stand by my unpopular decision that calling is correct.

And if we happen to lose we're still in the tournament with roughly an equal stack to the remaining player.