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[600NL] - Std TPTK deep OOP spot where Hero gets owned

Calvin Jiang
June 12, 2010 2:38:25 PM EDT

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Posted this on 2p2, didnt get much responses, hoping for better here.

Villain is a good agro reg, should view me as ~same.

Few hands ago he saw me call a $430 turn all in donkshove in a $360 3b pot with A6o on a 4842 board so I dunno if he views me as statony this session.

3/6 6max, 6 handed

Hero (UTG) $1,472.95
Villain (MP) $1,245.90

Hero is dealt: AK

Hero raises to $18, Villain calls $18, 4 fold

Flop ($45): QA9

Hero bets $32, Villain raises to $96.30, Hero asdfljlasdjflasjdflajsdfljlas;

================================================== ===

My friend likes a 3bet here, what do u guys think?
Dan L.
June 12, 2010 2:50:16 PM EDT

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With that board, I'd like to keep the pot small here... I'd try to play small ball rest of hand. Of course you could go Hypo agg and see if he drops it. I'm sure you chose the latter...
Calvin Jiang
June 12, 2010 2:57:03 PM EDT

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SamAdamsDan wrote...
With that board, I'd like to keep the pot small here... I'd try to play small ball rest of hand. Of course you could go Hypo agg and see if he drops it. I'm sure you chose the latter...

Pls explain how I "keep the pot small here". Throwing 1 liners from daniel negreanu without thinking doesnt help to the discussion.

"I'm sure you chose the latter..."

And lol jabs froma 25nl player?
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
June 13, 2010 2:24:08 AM EDT

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After Villian raises the pot size is $173.30 and it costs us an additional $64.30 to call. So we're getting almost 2.7 to 1 to call and see the turn.

The problems we face are:

1. We are out of position against a good aggro regular
2. There are a ton of scare cards that can hit the turn making our play more difficult

That's not a pretty board for our hand, but this is 6-max and Villian called with position. If Villian held something like AQ or 99 I'm guessing he'd have repopped us preflop (given the shorthandedness of the game and his positional advantage and his view of you as a player)

Bearing in mind, of course, that I don't play much NL cash games or 6-max for that matter.

If we 3-bet what is the plan if Villian calls when the turn hits and we're first to act? What is the plan if Villian 4-bets us?

I hate not having a backup here. Given my style of play, I'd probably go with a 3-bet and then fold to a 4-bet/shove because I think I could get away from this hand and not play for stacks.

But given that you are strong aggro and villian is as well, there may be potential to stack a villian who's using his position to take you off the best hand.

I'm thinking you cold-call his flop raise and then fist-pump check-raise him on the turn and he folds? Or perhaps you lead the turn, he shoves and you call and have the best of it?
Dan L.
June 13, 2010 2:31:02 AM EDT

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Keep the pot small by just calling instead of pushing or raising. Sorry for the lack of explanation but, I thought it was obvious for someone of your incredible skill level. Oh, and just because you play higher limits, doesn't mean you are a good player. It just means you have more money, probably just another trust fund baby adrenaline junkie..... The basics of poker remain the same and you often play way tooooo aggressive.
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
June 13, 2010 2:48:02 AM EDT

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I'm torn on which picture to post, so they're both going up

Calm down girls, you're both pretty, you're both going to prom
Rene Castillo
June 13, 2010 6:05:05 AM EDT

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If you play this hand through, its not going to be a small pot imo. If you play slow and c/c all the way down ur going to be calling some big bets there, and by just calling his raise there ur hand is pretty transparent, at least I would put you on a big Ace type hand that isn't AQ, except the nuts, which even then with your image, I would expect you to fire away on anyways.

I think we find out where we stand right now and put in a reraise, a substantial one at that, I'd say around 310 or so.
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
June 13, 2010 6:34:31 AM EDT

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If villian holds a hand we beat but could beat us, will he play for stacks?

Most likely a holding such as:

KQ

or

AJ

something along those lines. Where we're ahead, but Villian has a number of outs and may be willing to put us to a decision
Dan L.
June 13, 2010 7:02:22 AM EDT

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anthony wrote...
I'm torn on which picture to post, so they're both going up

Calm down girls, you're both pretty, you're both going to prom
Funny stuff +1
Calvin Jiang
June 14, 2010 5:59:19 AM EDT

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anthony wrote...
After Villian raises the pot size is $173.30 and it costs us an additional $64.30 to call. So we're getting almost 2.7 to 1 to call and see the turn.

The problems we face are:

1. We are out of position against a good aggro regular
2. There are a ton of scare cards that can hit the turn making our play more difficult

I agree

That's not a pretty board for our hand, but this is 6-max and Villian called with position. If Villian held something like AQ or 99 I'm guessing he'd have repopped us preflop (given the shorthandedness of the game and his positional advantage and his view of you as a player)

I can say with 99% confidence that villain will almost never 3bet me here with said hands.

Bearing in mind, of course, that I don't play much NL cash games or 6-max for that matter.

If we 3-bet what is the plan if Villian calls when the turn hits and we're first to act? What is the plan if Villian 4-bets us?

My friend likes a 3bet here because he says it folds out all his bluffs/semi bluffs, however, I'm not too sure about the latter. Does villain fold a hand like QxKs here? If we do 3bet and get called, I assume the plan would be to shut down completely. So essensially our 3bet is a bluff?

I hate not having a backup here. Given my style of play, I'd probably go with a 3-bet and then fold to a 4-bet/shove because I think I could get away from this hand and not play for stacks.

Yeah defs not playing for stacks here.

But given that you are strong aggro and villian is as well, there may be potential to stack a villian who's using his position to take you off the best hand.

Very possible and thats why its a shitty spot.

I'm thinking you cold-call his flop raise and then fist-pump check-raise him on the turn and he folds? Or perhaps you lead the turn, he shoves and you call and have the best of it?

Intereseted in your thinking behind these 2 lines.
Calvin Jiang
June 14, 2010 6:01:07 AM EDT

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SamAdamsDan wrote...
Keep the pot small by just calling instead of pushing or raising. Sorry for the lack of explanation but, I thought it was obvious for someone of your incredible skill level. Oh, and just because you play higher limits, doesn't mean you are a good player. It just means you have more money, probably just another trust fund baby adrenaline junkie..... The basics of poker remain the same and you often play way tooooo aggressive.

Lol at idiot calling me trust fund baby. Hu4rollz pleaseeee let it happen one time. Cmon I suck, just playing too agressively cus I'm on daddys credit card!
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
June 14, 2010 6:20:37 AM EDT

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Well, I've seen you call a guy with Ace high and no kicker and he showed down QJ and you had the best hand and played for stacks.

So my thinking behind the 2 lines (i.e. fist-pump checkraise the turn or lead the turn and call his shove) would be based on my assumption that you think villian is making a move on you with position and/or a hand that is behind you but could outdraw you (i.e. KQ or AJ type holdings)

In regards to your friend liking to 3-bet because it folds out bluffs and semi-bluffs, do you want to fold the guy there? Perhaps the semi-bluffs because they could get you. But you want him to overplay a weaker Ace without a spade or that whiffs against your hand for stacks I would think.

I like the 3-bet because it forces Villian to let us know if we're playing for stacks, rather than our flying blind into the turn.

If Villian has a vulnerable flush and fears you could outdraw him, he may drop the hammer on the flop after you 3-bet. If Villian has a set he will probably also drop the hammer. If Villian has a complete bluff he may give it up rather than committing his entire stack on the play.

If Villian is on a semi-bluff, he may be willing to get it in with a pair and flush draw.

So essentially I'm thinking that by 3-betting the flop there are a lot more hands that Villian could be bluffing us with that we fold out (rather than flyin blind into the turn) and only a few hands we're ahead of but that could outdraw us (i.e. the semibluffs) that we might fold the best hand to.

I think the 3-bet on the flop gives us a bit more information and keeps us from having to make a lot of difficult decisions on later streets when we're OOP.

If we 3-bet and Villian just cold calls, good grief!
Dan L.
June 14, 2010 3:12:44 PM EDT

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That chick on your profile pic is wicked hot.