...and you run back to your desk to find yourself with pocket queens, facing an open-shove in front of your EP raise by someone running 6/3 over 30-odd hands. I think this is a crying fold. Do you?
Pre Flop: (t300) Hero is UTG+1 with Q Q 1 fold, Hero raises to t700, UTG+2 calls t700, 1 fold, MP2 raises to t10150 all in, 4 folds, t4225 more for us to call
I'm with Patty. I generally know the odds and what I'm up against here but would probably go, "ah what the hell, " and shove for the sake of it!! More self-restraint required.
I need to learn to fold QQ more...have a hard time doing it!
Amen. The later it gets in a tournament, the harder time i have folding it. Facing a few raises, early in a tournament, i might be more inclined.... but as those blinds get larger and larger, i have a harder time.... if i had a nickel for every time i was trapped by a pair of queens.... :-p
I'm inclined to call here. I think if we are up against KK/ AA, you would probably see a three bet and not an open push. I'm thinking we are at worst coin flipping here and probably have his pocket 8's-10's crushed. Make that call!
I'm inclined to call here. I think if we are up against KK/ AA, you would probably see a three bet and not an open push.
I'm thinking we are at worst coin flipping here and probably have his pocket 8's-10's crushed.
1) I've got only 4225 behind and have made it 700 already, and so there isn't much point in simply 3-betting some stupid amount like 1,750 when there's a caller behind and I'm probably going to shove that 3-bet anyways with the same range that I'd call a shove with -- chances are the rock is aware of this, too, since what I just said is fundamentally solid and thus relatively common knowledge among more knowledgeable players.
Keep in mind there's also someone else still in the hand who's simply flat-called my raise of 700, and thus is of little concern other than the very likely probability that their call of 700 is dead money if villain 3-bets big. Again, this is something I'd expect the rock to know and hence think about. With that said, what 3-bet size can the villain possibly make here that actually makes more sense to make than just open-shoving?
Don't forget that big pairs play best 1-on-1 and that this guy's a rock -- and he's rocky for a reason, namely low variance and a lack of postflop skills -- and so villain probably doesn't want 3-way action for his entire stack. I had 25 blinds at the start of the hand, I still have over 20 blinds that I haven't put in the middle, and there's also another 5+ blinds in blinds/antes/the 3rd player's money, and that's probably more than good enough for him.
2) Do you really think a guy who plays only 6% of his hands and raises only 3% of them is going to make a play as volatile as shoving 10,000 into a raise of 700 with 88-TT? Also, if you think he shows up with 88-TT at times here, do you not think he's showing up with JJ or even the other two queens here? If not, why?
Also, if you think he shows up with 88-TT at times here, do you not think he's showing up with JJ or even the other two queens here? If not, why?
I don't read a lot of strategy hands so maybe that will explain why this is the first time I've saw somebody put this kind of perspective on a persons prediction for his opponents hand strngth. I never see somebody include a hand that beats them in the villains predicted hand range when they are rationalizing a call. It is 100% positive that he could have AA KK or QQ underneath if he is shoving all in.
Also, you shouldn't just look at his image, but his percieved image of the other players at the table. He could be shoving just as a reaction to the way other players have been playing.
Q 
