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To chop or not to chop??

Mike Canu
- 12 posts
November 25, 2010 6:03:05 AM EST

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Here is the situation. A friend invited me to a home game that he had played in before $75 buy-in 18 players. We started with 15K in chips 100/100 blinds with 18 minute levels that dropped to 15 later.

We are at the 7000/14000 level with us 3 handed we gave 4th back their buy-in prizes are 1-515 2nd 320 3rd-215($25 from each went to 4th). An even chop is just under 360 each.

We have played 3 handed for about 30 minutes and we were 4 handed for about 15 before. I feel I am the best player at the table. I have just over 125K and the other 2 are about 70-80K each. Only twice since 3 handed started has a player been all in and called.

We had talked about a chop earlier and one of the guys wanted to "play a bit more"
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
November 25, 2010 8:35:04 AM EST

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With blinds at 7K/14K and the largest stack (you) having 125K this is now a shove-fest. And despite your "chip lead" both of your opponents have a solid shot at winning this as well, since luck is going to play a huge factor here.

The only way I don't consider a chop in your spot is if I have been running over the two remaining players (i.e. at this stage they're playing too tight and so you can steal and whittle them down while they wait for a double up hand that is "worthy" of playing)

With a 50% chip advantage over either opponent, I would expect you to get the greater bulk of the payouts. There is $1,050 in the prize pool.

There are 270K chips in play, and you have 46% of them. 46% of the prize pool is $483 and first place pays $515. I'd see if they'd let me take $450 since I don't think you should settle for an even chop in this spot. They then each get around 2nd place money with $300 each.

Or you could offer them both 2nd place money of $320 and take a guaranteed $410 if needs be.
Ronin1085 .
- 417 posts
November 25, 2010 9:11:31 AM EST

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You really can play it both ways -- home tourneys are weird that way. so much depends on how you feel about the others. The blinds are getting crazy -- I'd usually take a deal -- if I am first in chips then I am getting more money.

if they want to play it out -- I usually let them kill eachother and then battle during heads up.
Dan L.
November 27, 2010 3:30:45 AM EST

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Don't chop, never chop, chopping is lame.....All that work and no actual "winner". I am the anti-chopper! The only thing you should be chopping is your opponent into little pieces....
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
November 27, 2010 7:38:51 AM EST

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SamAdamsDan wrote...
Don't chop, never chop, chopping is lame.....All that work and no actual "winner". I am the anti-chopper! The only thing you should be chopping is your opponent into little pieces....

Generally when it comes to chopping I prefer a redistribution of the wealth, but to still play it out.

So, for instance:

1st: $500
2nd: $250
3rd: $150

With three players being relatively equal in chips and the blinds at a point where it's a shove-fest I'd be fine with each player locking up $250 each and then playing for first and the other $150.
www.bankrollboosters.com
November 27, 2010 10:10:20 AM EST

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Unless you can work out a chop that pays you more than 1st place money. DON'T CHOP.

Player poker, learn to win outright, and never give up!
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
November 28, 2010 12:02:32 AM EST

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www.bankrollboosters.com wrote...
Unless you can work out a chop that pays you more than 1st place money. DON'T CHOP.

Player poker, learn to win outright, and never give up!

Let's say there's a tournament that has three players left. The blinds are 500/1K and each player has 2K in chips.

The payouts are:

1st: $10,000
2nd: $500
3rd: nothing

This is obviously an extreme example, but I would think that playing poker goes out the window here since there is no longer any room for skill with blinds and stack sizes involved. And the payouts obviously warrant consideration for chopping as well.

Looking at this years WSOP Main Event payouts:

1st - $8,944,138
2nd - $5,545,855
3rd - $4,129,979
4th - $3,092,497
5th - $2,332,960
6th - $1,772,939
7th - $1,356,708
8th - $1,045,738
9th - $811,823

There were 7,319 entrants. If you came in 9th place for 10 years in a row (with this same setup) you would win $8,118,230 which is less than winning 1st place once.

Obviously it would take more skill to come in 9th out of over 7K entrants for 10 years running, but it's not rewarded as such.

I believe a lot of the big tournaments have people cutting deals we never hear about. They aren't sexy, but they help with the variance since the divide between the top spots can be pretty significant.
Mike Canu
- 12 posts
November 28, 2010 10:27:09 AM EST

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Another factor that weighed on my decision is that this was my first time playing there and I feel this was a soft game that will be profitable. I don't want to be the '******* who wouldn't chop' and not be invited back.
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
November 28, 2010 3:15:10 PM EST

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Did you take the even money chop or did you get a bit more with your chip lead?
Mike Canu
- 12 posts
November 29, 2010 1:53:37 PM EST

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I took the even money chop
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
November 29, 2010 2:50:50 PM EST

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Well, I suppose you have future equity against that lineup by being welcomed in the game :)
Ronin1085 .
- 417 posts
November 29, 2010 3:00:37 PM EST

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I chop all the time -- if I am the chip leader, I am getting more money. But every situation is different.
Mike Canu
- 12 posts
November 29, 2010 11:56:53 PM EST

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EatingAnOreo wrote...
Another factor that weighed on my decision is that this was my first time playing there and I feel this was a soft game that will be profitable. I don't want to be the '******* who wouldn't chop' and not be invited back.

When did pokernations start editing out the word a hole?

This is actually a lie i was the chip leader so i got $1 more
Michael Santora
- 5 posts
November 30, 2010 12:53:18 AM EST

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Mike, I don't mind the chop because of the blinds and not wanting to be the ahole reasons. But i think you should have gotten yourself a litlle equity here. When asked to chop in these situations, just say sure, what are you proposing and if they come back with even chop, counter in a friendly manner with "as the chip leader, don't you think it would be fair for me to get a bigger share".

They know this and would have agreed. As it went down, i think they took advantage of your good will. Next time, stand up for yourself, albeit in a very friend way and I think you can get a fairer deal without offending anyone.

Edit to add: With the payout described, I would have said, give me $400 and you guys chop the rest, guaranteeing both of you 2nd place money. I think they would have jumped at that.
Ronin1085 .
- 417 posts
November 30, 2010 4:50:20 AM EST

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Toro wrote...
Mike, I don't mind the chop because of the blinds and not wanting to be the ahole reasons. But i think you should have gotten yourself a litlle equity here. When asked to chop in these situations, just say sure, what are you proposing and if they come back with even chop, counter in a friendly manner with "as the chip leader, don't you think it would be fair for me to get a bigger share".

They know this and would have agreed. As it went down, i think they took advantage of your good will. Next time, stand up for yourself, albeit in a very friend way and I think you can get a fairer deal without offending anyone.

Edit to add: With the payout described, I would have said, give me $400 and you guys chop the rest, guaranteeing both of you 2nd place money. I think they would have jumped at that.
I totally agree Toro. And if they do get testy, then play it out. But they will usually take that deal if done in a friendly way. You gotta play it cool.