Anthony Martino said:
Probably playing high-stakes cash games at Aria or sitting in their McMansions laughing at us while they count our money :(
Or while they count our money !!
Not defending them, but maybe playing some devil's advocate here. But didn't their funds get seized by the US Dept of Justice?? Not sure if they can even release money to the players.
Were they careless at snubbing their noise at the UIGEA -- probably. But Stars seemed to figure it out.
If Ivey sued them, then a lot of must have been out of the loop. For the most part the "red" pro thing was a bit of a gimmick. Cause I hadn't heard of most of them either.
They were just getting their rake back and wearing the Tilt logo at events for advertising.
This weekend saw the jaw-dropping release of Phil Ivey’s Full Tilt Poker account information, revealing that he owed the company up to $6.2million. Ivey, one of the leading faces of Team Full Tilt, was shown to have received a total of $10.2million from the site in loans between June 2009 and April 2011.
The story was broken by Subject: Poker editor-in-chief Noah Stephens-Davidowitz, who claims on the Two Plus Two forums that he came into possession of the raw data not from ‘someone looking to harm somebody’, but because he went looking for it.
Ivey originally sparked his fair share of controversy when he entered into a lawsuit (now withdrawn) against Tiltware, Full Tilt Poker’s software provider, following the events in the weeks after Black Friday. Ivey condemned the company, stating that he was ‘deeply disappointed and embarrassed that Full Tilt players have not been paid money they are owed’, even taking the drastic step of choosing to boycott the 2011 WSOP in protest.
Tiltware hit back hard, describing Ivey’s lawsuit as ‘frivolous and self-serving’ and an attempt ‘to further enrich himself at the expense of others’. They even went so far as to let slip that ‘Mr. Ivey has been invited – and has declined – to take actions that could assist the company in these efforts, including paying back a large sum of money he owes the site.’
Stephens-Davidowitz makes a number of allegations based on the account information, the highlights of which are as follows:
- Ivey received a loan totalling $10.2million in $500k and $1million installments credited to his Full Tilt account over the course of two years.
- In October and November 2009, he made repayments to the total of $3million.
- After this, save for his last recorded repayment in the spring of 2010, Ivey continues to receive large sums but ceases to pay them back.
- It is possible the money was repaid in cash or bank wires for which no information is available, but Tiltware’s ominous reference to Ivey’s debt suggests otherwise.
Another big name to be embroiled in the fracas is none other than Full Tilt Red Pro David Benyamine. Stephens-Davidowitz asserts that:
- Benyamine appears to have been indebted to FTP dating back to 2008.
- Sizeable deductions were being made from his salary and bonuses almost as soon as he received them, with the transactions noted as ‘loan collections’.
- By 2010, Benyamine was collecting a hugely increased yearly salary of $500k. However, it was clear he still wasn’t debt-free, with his hourly payments and rakeback going out of his account the same day they went in.
- Benyamine managed to withdraw with apparent ease a sum of $5,500 for ‘travel expenses’ seventeen days after Black Friday, while thousands of Full Tilt players remain to this day unable to touch their frozen funds in the wake of April 15.
This is a further slap in the face for all players awaiting reimbursement, following the recent news that the hearing into Full Tilt’s potentially unlawful actions has been postponed until mid-September. It is still uncertain whether or not rumours of prospective investors in the site will come up trumps, but for now all that the masses of frustrated players can do is wait
After reading that, he's maybe better off staying in those Asian casinos. Full Tilt obviously weren't running a very tight business and maybe the top names were taking advantage of that. Interesting about Ivey owing so much though, if it's true. Doesn't give him much credibility after making such a song and dance about Full Tilt folding. Maybe he was pissed his credit line stopped?
Sorry I didn't reply to this sooner, lost power last Saturday and still no power at the house, just got power back at work.
Seriously cursed, we move to CT last year and they suffer their worst winter in history. Then they just got hit with their largest power outage in history, FML.
As far as Tilt goes, the problem wasn't the DOJ seizing money from their agents operating in the US. It was their mismanagement of the money.
They were making a hefty profit, but decided to not only use the profit they made, but also the players money balances (hundreds of millions of dollars) to pay out to the majority shareholders.
They weren't content with the multi-millions they made in legitimate profit, and went beyond the money they made from rake and fees, failing to maintain enough cash on hand to cover the money that "belonged" to the players.